TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reasonab

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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by rlm850 »

I wouldn't recommend the fps_max in your cmd line, I have never found that stable. Put it in your server.cfg and it should actually be fine.

My FPS is pretty stable on a one core VDS with two CS:S servers running and logged into RDP.

] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 5846.74 14148.46 148 0 512.20 5
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 5882.79 13339.54 148 0 512.31 5
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 5964.12 12744.51 148 0 503.74 5
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 6745.89 12846.87 148 0 530.90 5
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 6735.49 12010.10 148 0 500.58 5



Keep in mind I'm also running the srcdsfpsboost.exe (if your server ever reports 64.x fps, this could be your issue. I'm also aware the CPU usage says 0.00, no one is playing right now, we're all in spectate.

However, if I go to our server with people playing, here are the stats.
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
12.44 27418.27 65274.81 168 3 509.32 7
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
12.44 27235.93 69172.85 168 3 511.78 7
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
12.44 27236.00 72188.38 168 3 514.80 7
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
12.44 27249.43 73391.02 168 3 511.38 7
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
12.44 27296.59 73854.82 168 3 509.83 7


Definitely try taking it out of your cmd line and put it in your server.cfg.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by rlm850 »

Also, one more thing, make sure your rates are correct. I always put my server rates in wrong (happened with my first dedicated server).

I would recommend:

sv_minrate 25000
sv_maxrate 30000
sv_maxupdaterate 66
sv_minupdaterate 66
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by Edge100x »

After rlm850's recommendations, it sounds like we're mainly left with:

3. Trying Win2k3
4. Trying a managed Linux server (I would have to set this up for you manually), since it uses a specialized kernel and slightly different virtualization setup

I'm still trying to think of something that this could be on Xen's side, and I'm drawing a blank.

Is the map that you are running a stock map, and without separate custom resources needed? If you're requiring an in-game download without using FAD, that would cause issues like this.

How much RAM do you have available?
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by zoomer4321 »

As recommended, we have switched to 2003 and didn't see much difference.

We are a little frustrated. The other admin, ohnoes, has been working this issue for the better part of three days.

We will try the server.cfg changes recommended later today.

Edge, could you point us to another customer/public server at NFO with a similar configuration (VDS @ 1 vCore) running TF2 @ 24 or 32 slots and 66 tick. I'd like to join it and watch the sv FPS using net_graph 4 when the server is near full.

I'm beginning to suspect that it's impossible to have a server locked at a particular FPS. I think people measure FPS using stats only get a partial picture and miss the fluctuations happening instantaneously. They think that when the spot checks show a relatively stable FPS that it isn’t varying and briefly dropping in game like we are seeing. The drops might be so short lived that a period stats command never records them.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by rlm850 »

If you want, I can set one up on my VDS :) I'm running a 1 Core in Chicago. As a matter in fact, if you want, I'll get you an FTP user/pass on mine and you can upload your addon files so we can test those as well.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by rustydusty1717 »

Definitely could be a Xen issue, as there has been a lot lately in the Seattle location. :(
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by zoomer4321 »

rlm850 wrote:If you want, I can set one up on my VDS :) I'm running a 1 Core in Chicago. As a matter in fact, if you want, I'll get you an FTP user/pass on mine and you can upload your addon files so we can test those as well.
rlm,

Thanks for the offer. NFO has moved our VDS to a different host so in a sense we tried what you are offering but it's appreciated.

Ideally, I'd like to find a TF2 game server that the owner feels has rock steady FPS under full or nearly full load. Then I can join it and play for a little while watching the FPS through net_graph.

I'm thinking that most servers on average have a stable FPS but when you look at the FPS in detail on the fly you will see brief drops. If that is the case then we might be unreasonable in asking for ANY configuration that won't drop in FPS from time to time. If short period drops are proven to be the typical situation, we can focus on any situation where our FPS is dropping below the 66 ticks or lagging players.

If people really do have servers that never (or almost never) vary in FPS then we need to look at the hardware or xen.

If you feel (or anyone reading this) you have very stable TF2 server, try the following when it is loaded up with players in the game:
In the client console, type:
rcon stats
then hit up arrow and then enter as fast as you can.
Then let us know if you ever see the FPS vary.

The problem is if the FPS drops only 1% of the time and you are doing rcon once every second, you might not see the drop if you only do 10-20 stats. However, when playing, you will definitely feel the drop even though every stats result shows a high, stable FPS.


Thanks.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by Edge100x »

zoomer4321 wrote:Edge, could you point us to another customer/public server at NFO with a similar configuration (VDS @ 1 vCore) running TF2 @ 24 or 32 slots and 66 tick. I'd like to join it and watch the sv FPS using net_graph 4 when the server is near full.
Since unmanaged servers are opaque to me, I don't have an easy example, unfortunately.
I'm beginning to suspect that it's impossible to have a server locked at a particular FPS. I think people measure FPS using stats only get a partial picture and miss the fluctuations happening instantaneously. They think that when the spot checks show a relatively stable FPS that it isn’t varying and briefly dropping in game like we are seeing. The drops might be so short lived that a period stats command never records them.
That may be true, under orangebox. It could be just that nobody has brought it to my attention before.
Definitely could be a Xen issue, as there has been a lot lately in the Seattle location. :(
We have seen a few stability problems with Xen recently under heavy disk access, but we haven't seen performance problems. I can't rule out the hypervisor entirely until we find a different culprit, but I don't think it's likely.

zoomer4321, would you like to try a 2-core or managed Linux config? Our Linux config has the "FPS Locker" which works very well, and a 2-core might help because Orangebox is slightly multi-threaded.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by Edge100x »

To clarify, when I say try a 2-core, I mean that we could move you to one temporarily for testing purposes, without a charge. Just mention this in the support request and we can arrange it for you.

I usually recommend 2-core configurations for multiple game servers, since a single-core means that any activity in the OS (or other programs) can't occur simultaneously with game server activity. This means that a single-core config will have problems if there are multiple servers running and one needs to load a map, at minimum. In your case, with a high-intensity TF2 server, you might also benefit from multiple cores due to its multithreaded nature and the need to maximize performance.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by rustydusty1717 »

Does any game on HL2 support multithreading? For instance, DOD:S? Just curious, as I booted up a 32 slot DOD:S server last night, and tonight it's been almost full all night and my single core is being worked hard. Might need to move to 2 core soon.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by zoomer4321 »

[quote="Edge100x"]To clarify, when I say try a 2-core, I mean that we could move you to one temporarily for testing purposes, without a charge. Just mention
this in the support request and we can arrange it for you.

I believe that ohnoes requested that you add another vCore for testing.

This is what we are seeing at only 21 players, no addons/plugins or stats on two cores trying all the suggestions so far. Taken at approx one second intervals. Even in this small sample we had three significant drops one of which was into double digits.

CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 79999.35 387784.47 137 8 505.91 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 80629.27 385778.38 137 8 112.89 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 81085.51 398127.00 137 8 512.66 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 80931.75 394460.72 137 8 506.62 21
Deal With It killed \TG/ Daywa1ker [MP] with natascha.
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 83332.52 371924.63 137 8 521.77 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 87953.31 371554.47 137 8 517.30 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 91395.45 385362.72 137 8 507.97 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 90093.20 393962.94 137 8 519.40 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 90212.19 403077.38 137 8 72.94 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 89592.73 398196.81 137 8 523.27 21
] rcon stats
CPU In Out Uptime Users FPS Players
0.00 87577.76 392721.78 137 8 102.36 21

If we request that a managed linux OS install be done on our now temporary 2 vCore VDS, will it really be converted to a managed VDS for a testing period?

Also, how do you handle something like hlstatsx in a managed install since we can’t run the daemon on the web server and managed implies it can't be done on the game server.

Thanks
Z
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by rlm850 »

In regards to HLX daemon - it can't be done on a managed install. You'd have to choose a web host suggested by HLX:CE or purchase from gameme.com -- I'd say gameme would be a great choice, I'm doing it myself to save resources and bandwidth and it's better than HLX:CE. $5 for one game server and only $1 more for additionals.

http://stats.evolutionreloaded.net
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by Edge100x »

zoomer4321 wrote:This is what we are seeing at only 21 players, no addons/plugins or stats on two cores trying all the suggestions so far. Taken at approx one second intervals. Even in this small sample we had three significant drops one of which was into double digits.
That doesn't show a drop below the tickrate of 66, which is good to see. Were you seeing performance problems in-game, such as choke or warping?

Have you tried changing some of the threading variables already (sv_parallel_packentities, sv_parallel_sendsnapshot, net_queued_packet_thread)?
If we request that a managed linux OS install be done on our now temporary 2 vCore VDS, will it really be converted to a managed VDS for a testing period?
We'll do whatever we need to in order to help you peg this down. If we go with a managed VDS, I'd probably want to switch it to a standard 2-core, at least temporarily (to get the full RAM, as well). The managed installation would be something that I would then trigger through your "Server control" page.

Some nice things about the Linux managed install are that:

* Our control panel here will correct a few settings for you automatically to optimize your server
* We can easily view graphs for CPU usage and memory along with server FPS
* It has the FPS Locker, our proprietary stable FPS system, and uses a more accurate/lower-overhead system timer
* We have well-honed performance characteristics like automatic core placement and priority level setting, so we won't have to worry about those
* I can troubleshoot more with you on my end, such as by looking at the server traffic and server configuration files directly

I can also save your old hard drive so that you can go back to it if the managed Linux config does the same thing.
Also, how do you handle something like hlstatsx in a managed install since we can’t run the daemon on the web server and managed implies it can't be done on the game server.
HLstatsX:CE is a free option for managed game servers.
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by zoomer4321 »

Edge,

Thanks for the help.

We did try messing with sv_parallel_packentities, sv_parallel_sendsnapshot, net_queued_packet_thread values and -threads on the command line with no impact.

Also, we put:
sv_minrate 25000
sv_maxrate 30000
sv_maxupdaterate 66
sv_minupdaterate 66
fps_max 600
in the server.cfg.

For the most part, the server ran OK. However, as more people joined, the FPS began to vary more. At one point we did start to see server wide hitching/warping occasionally and the server was at about 20 people. I think the problem would get much worse at 32.

I think testing managed linux install will be the best way to go at this point. Either it will fix the problem or give you visibility to the metrics.

I will let ohnoes coordinate the conversion to managed. I doubt we require a backup as he has rebuild the server about 6-8 times now on both linux and Windows.

I do appreciate you offering the various things for free trial. Nothing in software/hardware is ever perfect and sometimes it's beyond anyone's control. However, at least you are providing us with suggestions and support and no cost trial options. Our last provider was awful in this respect.

Thanks.
Z
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Re: TF2 on 1 vCore VDS - Best configuration and what is reas

Post by Edge100x »

Please just let us know in the support request whenever you're ready for it. I'll be here prepared to do it for most of the day :)
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